Kenshi Yonezu/Hachi - Azalea

Natalie.mu, November 19th, 2024 (Original Article)

What is Affection, Anyway? Examining the "Continuity Amid Changes"

Kenshi Yonezu has released his new song Azalea for streaming.

Azalea is a pure love song written as the theme for the Netflix series Beyond Goodbye, starring Kasumi Arimura, Kentaro Sakaguchi, and Toma Ikuta. Natalie.mu has interviewed Yonezu to mark this release, asking not only about the creation of Azalea, but about changes since releasing his album LOST CORNER in August, and the recently-posted new music video for a song released under the name Hachi, Donut Hole.

— First, let me ask about the change in your mental state since the release of your album LOST CORNER. How are you feeling, now that some time has passed since its August release?

There's no question I was feeling pretty cheerful having finished the album, but there was no sense of getting to catch my breath afterward whatsoever. The week after I finished recording songs for the album, I had more recording to do. Personally, it still feels like I'm caught up in a whirlpool. I might not have had very much time to look back at things.

— So your work schedule has been packed all this time.

It has. I think as I get older, I feel more of an ambition to "work more." At the same time, my sense of time shortens the more I age, so before I know it a year or two has passed. That feeling of "I wonder how many more songs I can make in my life?" gets bigger and bigger. It seems I'm in a mood where I'd like to create a bunch of different stuff.

— You said this in our last interview as well, but making the album LOST CORNER, and the song Globe in particular, was an experience like climbing a mountain bigger than any in your life. By putting that out, did you feel a change like you'd taken a load off, or gotten lighter?

Absolutely, yes. It was the biggest event of my life. I don't know what lies ahead, but at least at the moment, I feel as if nothing is likely to compare to that. In a sense, it even feels like I'm living out my "remaining years," my "life after that." As such, rather than an approach where I push on toward an aspiration with a firm goal in mind, I feel like it's okay for me to live a little more spontaneously, a little more ephemerally. And to do that, I think I need to have an emotional lightness too. I've always been living on a low gear, staring intently at things and thinking them over. That still hasn't changed, but I feel as if it's fine to have a bit more lightness. When I relisten to STRAY SHEEP (fifth album, released in August 2020) these days, I find it has an incredible heaviness to it, and LOST CORNER is like a rebound from that. Right now, I want that sense of lightness to become lighter and lighter still. I don't want to live a particularly pompous life. That might be sort of the feeling.

— Let me ask once more about your theme song for the NHK TV serial Tiger With Wings, "Bye Now, See You Someday!" I feel like this show and its theme received a historically rare degree of popularity and adoration for a morning drama; what did the experience of creating "Bye Now, See You Someday!" end up becoming for you?

I imagine it may be both the first and last time I do the theme song for a morning drama, but it's a true honor that I got to do it for such a fantastic show as Tiger With Wings, and I think I'm very fortunate. This isn't limited to Tiger With Wings, but when I look back and think about it, there's a strong sense that I've been "raised" by some of the media I've collabed with.

— Raised?

In terms of Tiger With Wings, to be honest, I knew absolutely nothing about Yoshiko Mibuchi, the first female lawyer in Japan who served as the base for the protagonist Tomoko, until I got involved with the show. I knew that activism around feminism and women's social status had picked up a lot in the past 10 years or so, and had seen and researched things in my own way, but part of me was ultimately looking at it all from afar. Before making the song, I was well aware that I had to be careful with how I intervened in this drama as a man, and that it would be a catastrophe if I remained uncertain about that part. Taking all this into consideration and examining the show the best I could, I created "Bye Now, See You Someday!" Yet even after finishing the song, that attitude still remained with me. I still keep the circuits I developed from making that song, and they keep being amplified. It becomes a part of my life. Which means even the things I see in daily life can look completely different. I feel that making the song "Bye Now, See You Someday!" has become a major factor in what makes up my personality. Not only for Tiger With Wings; for instance, I'd say the same is true of Unnatural, MIU404, and Last Mile. I feel like there's a major difference between who I was before encountering those pieces of media and who I was after. Those are the sort of thoughts I've had lately, after finishing the album.

— You could say that media collabs of this sort are a culture unique to Japan. If you compare with the pop music scenes in America or England, it's very rare that an artist like Taylor Swift or Beyoncé will write an original theme song for something. On the other hand, in J-pop culture, it's normal for a mainstream artist to write a theme for an anime, drama, or movie. And also, in your case, it's not just about the opportunity to simply get sales or recognition, but ties into deeper introspection as an artist, or a broadening of your view. I feel like that might be a very rare case.

I thought that I should have a social nature. From the moment I first decided to sing with my own name and face, at least speaking for myself, I couldn't live without keeping an eye on my attitude toward other people, and how others saw me. That's because I saw media collabs as a thing that just went hand in hand with being in the Japanese pop scene, especially if you're a major artist. I had doubts about it at first, but I've since realized that it's an incredibly important thing for me. If you metaphorically consider those various works and stories to be "other people," I've constantly been thinking about how myself and others compare to each other, how much we have in common, how deep I'd need to go to cause a halation, what points I can assimilate, and so on. That's what this culture is about. It's hardly any different from the relationship between two people. I feel as if, through media collabs and the like, I might be strengthening my own awareness of being a member of society.

— You've released your new song Azalea after a relatively short 4-month gap since your album LOST CORNER. Did the time you were making it overlap with you working on the album?

I made a prototype for the song last year, then I readjusted it around February or March this year. This was a song I made before the album songs. So it's not an extension of the desire to "be more light" I mentioned earlier.

— When you received an offer to do the theme for the Netflix series Beyond Goodbye, what were you thinking at first?

The show is a story involving a heart transplant; at the start, one half of a couple who's going to get married dies in an accident. An entirely different man who received his heart in a transplant shows up, and the girl who was left behind can't help but see traces of her lover in him. I found that depiction of "a life that's been extended" very interesting, and felt that it really lined up with things I've been saying in interviews myself lately, about examining what things are possible to trade out when loving each other. I felt it was a story I could extremely agree with, that seemed to reinforce the things I've been thinking all this time. Thus, I had a really easy time making it too, and it was a lot of fun.

— So Beyond Goodbye's story and worldview seemed to link up with the way of thinking you already had.

That's right. Because the story was near to my actual feelings. And also, I sensed my feelings being reconstructed by putting them through the filter of a romance.

— The chorus has the lines "Even if you've changed in some way, I always have loved you so," and "Whether you're even there or not, even if you're not you." These really seem to represent the things you mentioned, about an approach to communication where you're confirming your relationship with the person in front of you every time, with the expectation that things will change. I believe you've been asked this before in interviews about Canary and Junk, but what exactly led you to consider things like this?

I'm still only in my thirties, but as I get older, there are people I no longer meet with, while others I've always kept up a relationship with. Both at work and with friends, when you're together for a long time, there are things that make you go "This guy's the same as ever," but there are also things that will change no matter how much you fight it. Or even if the person doesn't think they've changed, they might appear different in context due to various factors. Few things are eternally unchanging. And since that's the case, you need to consider how you should approach people. At least to me, it felt like I couldn't proceed until I had a satisfactory answer to that. I experienced many failures, and things I had to contemplate. In my twenties, I was rather foolhardy, not looking at those around me in certain ways, and there were many moments where that blew up in my face. I'd be told "That hurts," and I'd go "Ahh, so this hurts?", and have to reflect on it and update my thinking. Even if they're friends, they're all still "people who aren't me," so I have to keep asking myself if we can continue with the same relationship we've had up to now. As the years have passed, I feel I've gradually come to understand how incredibly important it is to keep asking that question.

— Like what's symbolized by the word "bonds," for instance, I believe many people find relief in things not changing when it comes to people's affections and connections, and in fact think that constancy is where attachment comes from. Which is why I think there must also be people who, when shown a perspective which accepts that things change and puts importance on confirming your relationship each time, find that to be a little more comfortable. Ever since coming to perceive people's relationships in that way, how has your own perspective changed? Does it feel more comfortable?

It's a lot more comfortable, I think. Indeed, when I was young, I hoped for others to not change, and sometimes thought "Why did you have to go and change?" But I feel that was self-important of me, and I was just leaning on them. Humans are creatures each with their own subjectivity, so it's shameful to say "just stay like that forever for me." We each do the things we want to do, and even if we have a relationship where we understand each other, it doesn't mean we're exactly the same in our hearts. I mean, obviously. I've come to think of it like "You and I are both changing. But even if we've changed, I hope some things still continue on." And this song is themed around love, so I examined that idea around the axis of love. That got me thinking, "what is affection, anyway?"

— So writing this song was an impetus to think about what affection means. What sort of answer did you come to?

Using the word "partner" basically means "you're the one I love"; "if not for you, this love wouldn't have come to be." However, did it truly "have to be you" to produce that affection? If you take it to a drastic extreme and dissect the truth of it, surely that can't be the case. You just happened to be the one in front of me. That blunt truth was the only answer I could arrive at. That said, this doesn't exactly make that affection a sham. I think it's important to accept that fact, recognize it, and take on the responsibility of that ambiguous, empty-feeling thing. Take responsibility, and show your affection through physical actions. Touching, hugging, acts like that are where the important things lie. I feel as if affection isn't something that's there from the start; affection is what's born from your actions.

— What sort of approach did you consider in writing a theme song for a love story, one that would be coloring a romance?

I thought a lot of things like "what even is love?" Love is kind of hesitant, in a way - most love songs in the world are all about worrying, right? I think those worries might be the essence of love. In other words, love is bumbling. You feel things you'd never feel had you not fallen into that state. If you hadn't fallen in love with someone, you would've likely had peace, yet you let go of that state before you knew it. And soon, it's like it's too late - you feel more and more insecure. From that angle, too, I feel like touching each other, hearing heartbeats, intimacy like that which brings physical closeness, becomes really important. It feels difficult to portray such things outside of a love song.

— Like you've been talking about, the lyrics greatly feature the sense of touch with phrases like "stroke your cheek," "touching," and "hold me a little longer, squeeze me." On top of that, there are also expressions of smell and taste with "a faintly scented citrus" and "hot coffee." I suppose there was a desire to value the more physical senses, and information that can't be gained via sight and sound?

Perhaps, but it wasn't something I aimed to do from the start. It's more like it ended up like that as I went along. Sort of a naked feeling, like a shellfish stripped of its shell. Though that's kind of a theme for me lately.

— Meaning?

In recent years, there's been talk of people in their teens and twenties having fewer relationships. I'm sure there are many different causes for this, but I feel like one of them is wanting a strict consensus. In other words, people aiming to have a mutual understanding in their relationships. Because if you don't have an understanding, it becomes a harmful act. So you need to be careful about that decision. It's certainly true; doing that can avoid all sorts of harm. But at the same time, like I said earlier, one of the fundamental aspects of love is bumbling. I think that stands in direct opposition to the move toward strict consensus. Although it's an important viewpoint, people will have harmful aspects no matter what they do. I find it dubious that there's such a thing as perfect consensus in the first place, and it's entirely possible for people's words and thoughts to be mismatched. All the moreso if there's a significant difference in authority or physical ability, there are some things that won't be resolved by just strictly ensuring a consensus. I'm thinking the important part is acknowledging "I can't control you." If you keep that under a lid all your life, I feel you'll start to lose your immunity to living. Other people will become almost like fictional beings. If you keep up that attitude, you'll become unable to bear even bad breath, wrinkles around the eyes, body hair, or skin hyperpigmentation. I think that's a hole you could fall into. And is that really best? Humans aren't living for the convenience of other people. There's a chaos swirling inside them, and they can't be gauged as a whole. To understand them, you need physical closeness. Lately, I feel like having enough physical closeness to notice "so you actually have freckles or a mole here" is incredibly important.

— The lyrics have a line that expresses this too: "I want to feel your matière." I was unfamiliar with the word "matière," so I looked it up, and apparently it refers to the "bulging" texture of a painting when paints are layered. In short, it's something that you can't see or feel on a phone screen or monitor. It struck me that using the word "matière" as a love-related metaphor connected it to the idea of relationships and the sense of touch.

That's true. When I was young ,there was a period where I dabbled in art, so I remembered that word from distant memories of back then.

— Let me ask about the sound and tone of the song as well. First, what sort of picture did you have of the song when you started making it?

I arranged this song with Yaffle, the same as Every Day. I wanted an urban nuance - a sort of chilly mood. More like a town at night than something warm. I also wanted to keep the vocals at a low place, not rising up too high.

— What made you think a chilly feeling would be appropriate?

I didn't want it to feel exaggerated. Love songs can become really dramatic if you're not careful. I sensed things getting closer and closer to romanticism, and if it crossed a certain threshold, it would instantly feel fake. I didn't really want to do that. I wanted to keep it a little more minimal, plainly rising toward the latter half. When I was making this song, I wanted it to be just the right size to have veracity, depicting love with dynamism.

— You had a desire to have it be not too overdone, not too emotional.

I figure some things are amplified by showing restraint in that regard. Peering at the micro-scale instead of holding things up to surface level greatly amplifies the little details. I think that's the kind of effect I was aiming for.

— Incidentally, what was the reason for titling the song after azaleas?

It was association from the story being about seeing traces of another in someone who had a heart transplant. First I thought "that's sort of like a doppelganger," and from there I thought about clones. Azaleas can multiply from cuttings, and while the cutting itself is separate, it's genetically identical, which is to say a clone. Playing that association game led me to flower cuttings, so from there I went with azaleas as the motif, and thought about how I could express the relationship with that.

— Finally, let me ask about Donut Hole. A new music video was released the other day, and there was a collaboration held with GODIVA. How did all this begin?

It began with GODIVA approaching me. There was sort of no reason to refuse; indeed, thinking about how it'd been almost 11 years since Donut Hole was something I had deep feelings about. I myself had a strong interest in how it'd turn out if I faced it again now. I decided I'd try throwing myself into it.

— What did you think, looking back once more on the song Donut Hole?

It was highly embarrassing. I've changed a lot in 10 years, and the direction of the music I make has changed. It made me feel like "oh yeah, there was that me 10 years ago"; like I was listening to an old album and thinking "that's right, this happened too."

— For the GODIVA collaboration packaging and the music video, you drew the characters of GUMI, Hatsune Miku, Megurine Luka, and Kagamine Rin anew. Why did you decide to draw new versions?

It started with me disliking the idea of the original art accompanying merchandise to such a degree that I said "Please, you have to let me redraw them a little." And then, when I tried drawing them anew, I noticed: when I drew them now, their fashion and clothing didn't match up at all with how they were back then. Their proportions had changed - they'd grown up. I had the curious feeling that these girls, too, were maturing without me realizing. It was deeply interesting.

— The music video was made by Director Yuki Kamiya and Production I.G, with a story about GUMI, Hatsune Miku, Megurine Luka, and Kagamine Rin working at a waste collection company. It seems you thought up the initial plan yourself.

The part about garbage collection trucks is because that's the mode I'm in lately, but back when I made this song, I had wanted to make it something like a shonen manga. But I wasn't able to accomplish that. So I had this desire to try to make that happen after all this time. I asked people who were up to the task, and got them to depict what I had been thinking about at the time with a high level of detail. It was kind of a nerdy dream come true, so in that sense, I felt glad to have been doing this for so long. But it was just so fantastic, I had a cold sweat the whole time I was watching it. Indeed, my song was just so ancient, it felt like it was losing to the video. I thought "What do I do? Maybe I could resequence it?", and hurried to buy the latest Megpoid and try that, but sure enough, it just wasn't sticking. It just became something different. Though I tried to change it, it felt like there was no way to change it.

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